Petra Amalia Bachmann spoke with writer Saša Stanišić on the occasion of the publication of Buybook's new, updated edition of his novel Origin .
Origins are big puzzles of experiences, attitudes, biographies and experiences that are different for each of us. Putting together my own puzzle helped me to understand many things that were unknown or incomprehensible to me before, and all of these things are in turn related to the question: Why did you become this person? From this, in general, a similar question can be transferred to the readers, but on the condition that they themselves want to ask it.
How do your personal experiences of transnational perspective, displacement, and cultural hybridity shape your approach to reinterpreting the concept of national identity in your works?
As an author of works of fiction, I use the opportunity of multi-perspective storytelling that stories make possible. At the same time, I try to come up with different points of view and voices that do not come only from my personal point of view or voice, all with the aim of being able to show a greater variety of life stories and highlight that identity is always a complex construct with many variables.
What do you think about the role of literature in stimulating discussions about interculturality and the fluidity of belonging in today's society?
Literature could, in theory, provide diverse illustrative frameworks for identity discourses – but I'm also a realist, and I'm aware that unfortunately many people don't read books. Maybe they are simply not interested in literature, maybe they don't have the time or energy, and maybe they only read what confirms their personal views. That's right, that's how it is. But because of that, the possible greater role and influence of, for example, diverse literature does not reach those who see identity as, say, an exclusively national construct or perceive it in any other way as one-dimensional. The result is therefore “preaching to the already converted”. People go to literary evenings to nod their heads, those who have money go to the theater, rarely does a taxi driver from Lukavica set up an exhibition in galleries.
The structure of Origin is fragmentary, this novel with autobiographical elements is composed of small prose segments, memories and essayistic elements. How did you approach shaping this non-linear narrative and what effect did you want to achieve by telling it this way? Did the story lead to the form?
I was more driven by desire - the desire to tell "our" stories. Also a little arbitrary, relying on the arbitrariness of life paths that were not entirely voluntary, that led us to exile, poverty or death. And many became fragmented in the process – families broke up, biographies were interrupted in one place and then started again in another place under completely new conditions of life.
I could of course now say that fragmentary or a non-chronological approach corresponds to such a fragmentary and non-chronological nature of biographies from our region or also to the nature of memory, but that would be pretentious. The composition of the novel roughly follows the signs of my biography with other inserts that are a kind of “islands” in the narrative. They act like a screen for other life stories with the aim of merging mine and “others’” into one mosaic on the theme of origin.
How do these different discourses and different narrative lines contribute to the exploration of identity and belonging?
I can only speak about myself, because I cannot know how other writers do it. It was important for me to tell a story in which I explore "myself" among others - my biological, national, cultural, linguistic, social, financial origins in society, in the political present of Germany and the past of Yugoslavia. And that "I" is just one of the many possibilities of being someone or something.
Furthermore, I always see origins in the plural - origins are big, different puzzles of experiences, attitudes, biographies and experiences for each of us. Putting together my own puzzle helped me to understand many things that were unknown or incomprehensible to me before, and all of these things are in turn related to the question: Why did you become this person? From this, in general, a similar question can be transferred to the readers, but on the condition that they themselves want to ask it.
How did the writing process go, was there any specific research in terms of sifting through memories and the stories of other family members?
Yes, it is. We talked to each other, we traveled to the area of Oskoruša, we were in Višegrad. I also talked to people who played major roles in my childhood and youth. When I finished the first hand of the novel, I sat down with my parents and once again went through everything that was written, and in the process memories gave birth to some new stories. And yet, on its second level, the book also consists of fictional episodes, where factual research was also needed, from questions like "Can snakes climb a tree?", for example, to conversations with the spectators of that famous match between Zvezda and Bayern at the Maracana in 1991.
In the novel, the lines between fiction and faction are very blurred. How are the fictitious elements in the novel connected to memory or holes in memory?
It is difficult to explain exactly because imagining has several roles. Sometimes I just embellish a story to make it more exciting, more tense. Sometimes I fill in the gaps in my memory with fictional elements - especially in episodes about the life of my grandmother who survived two wars but loses her memory. Sometimes I simply have an idea for a "good" story that is not a memory and is not factual. So there is no system behind it. The sheer desire for storytelling prevails here as well. Except perhaps in the character of the grandmother, where I show that fiction sometimes has a literal healing function: The grandmother would sometimes be frustrated by the holes in her memory, and she would calm down when we or she herself would fill them in - of course, with stories.
As a result of the war, the characters struggle with the consequences of conflict and trauma. How do you approach the representation of trauma in your writing and how is it depicted in Origin ?
The relationship to trauma is an important theme (unfortunately) in many lives. In my case, these are traumas resulting from war experiences and the experience of fleeing, but which, fortunately, did not manifest themselves clinically. Each trauma has its own unique feature. I tried - for example through the figure of the mother - to show that sometimes some things cannot be cured, because the images of horror cannot be so easily erased from the memory.
I perceive stories about trauma differently. Namely, telling stories about traumas and dealing with fears and horrors are also part of our collective past, an indispensable part of every Yugoslav fable. And yet, literature cannot replace therapy, but there are no therapists for entire countries, unfortunately. We need a top professional.
In several places in the novel, it is clear that the protagonist feels shame, namely, he is ashamed of being a refugee. However, the self that writes from an adult perspective is still aware of it. What he is not aware of is guilt. Is the guilt of surviving the war far from Visegrad the reason for writing such a work?
There is some shame in that, yes, above all the shame that comes from the suddenly precarious life in Germany as a refugee. That shame, however, is not the main goal or cause of storytelling, but simply a strong emotion among many other emotions, which becomes part of the identity of probably every refugee and as such, in an attempt to overcome that shame, becomes a constructive element of overcoming difficult everyday life.
Guilt, on the other hand, is a feeling that cannot be overcome simply by actions, ambition, success (or money), but first by facing what is the cause of that guilt. In the case of many refugees, it is the fact that they have fled war. And it's actually absurd - running away should be a reflex, and preserving life should be a duty. And yet, that guilt exists, I've heard it in many conversations with other refugees and I'm trying to get to the bottom of it as well.
It can be concluded from the novel that the protagonist did not experience the same level of trauma as some of the other refugees in the novel. Did the lack of intense trauma perhaps result in an easier process of adaptation and the formation of an identity that is less fragmented and fragmented than those we see, for example, in the novels of Tijan Sila, especially in the novels Zvjerčica unlimited and Radio Sarajevo ?
Yes, it most certainly was. My experiences during the siege of Visegrad and what I saw then were, fortunately, relatively harmless compared to what others had to go through. Of course, living without images of murder, violence and the like is always easier. Identity is formed from many components of life, and stressful and burdensome ones simply have more weight than others. So my life in Germany was more oriented towards the present than the past, and that certainly helped me to adapt faster than others, whose part of identity was permeated by the horror of what they experienced in the war.
Origin explores the concept of home, homeland, and the search for one's roots. How do these concepts develop in today's globalized world, and can we draw a parallel with how the concept of origin changes throughout the novel?
My attempt was directed towards the idea that every origin is fluid. It is neither an attitude nor an immutable fact, but a heterogeneous process in which we wear various costumes of different figures on the chessboard of life. Those costumes are sewn with the threads of many small encounters, ideas, perceptions, experiences and intentions, and of course genetic predispositions. Through the novel, I realize that this is not true for every person either. I understand that there are also simple answers to the question: "And who are you?" and that we don't wear some costumes ourselves, but others impose them on us. In stories we get rid of them, but in reality we sometimes carry them to the grave, unfortunately.
Upon arrival in Heidelberg, the ARAL gas station takes on a significant role in the novel, symbolizing a space where different communities meet. Can you elaborate on the significance of this setting for the protagonist and its representation of multiculturalism?
I was looking for a place for the stories, a parallel to Boccaccio's Decameron and a country house near Firenze. The plague is not present, but there are the difficulties of life as a refugee or a foreigner in Germany. That space – for lack of another suitable one – was actually a gas station. It also feels like the city didn't take care of us young people, so we had to look for those places ourselves. Then, in the second step, I wanted to create a utopia of unity of different ethnic and national groups, which I actually experienced (although not only at the gas station). The origin does not only describe the existing conditions, but - and I have set myself the task - it also creates the conditions that should exist in, in my opinion, an ideal society in which we take care of each other, instead of acting against each other.
How does the reception and interpretation of your novels in the South Slavic cultural area differ from that in Germany?
I can't answer that because I rarely read what's written about my books, so I don't really have a useful impression or comparison.
What do you think, what is gained and perhaps lost in the translation into South Slavic languages?
I believe that a certain precision is achieved, because many things that I explain in Germany do not need to be explained here. It's also linguistically nice to say things the way I "really" said them. It seems to me that the reading experience is also different - closer to my actual writing experience.
The novel ends with an interactive element where readers can choose the path of the story. What inspired this interactive aspect and what do you hope readers take away from this unique experience? What message does such an ending send?
Spend more time with your grandparents. ☺