The Macedonian literary scene has been on the rise for over a decade, and a special place in it is occupied by Rumena Bužarovska, one of the most famous and recognized writers in the region. In addition to becoming famous for her successful collections of stories, Bužarovska is also known as an activist and translator, and with her new book she has also stepped into the world of essay writing. In this interview, we will talk about her latest book , After God, America , recently published by Buybook.
INTERVIEWER: Dalibor Plečić
Author's photo © Andrej Lembanov
This book is the result of essays written for the online magazine Veliki priče . These are longer texts, almost essay-like, which have now been combined into one compact book. First, can you tell me why you decided to write them in English, and not in Macedonian or one of “our” languages?
I would say that the book is the result of Semezdin Mehmedinović’s invitation to write a diary for the extraordinary “Diary” edition of contemporary regional authors, of which I am truly honored to be a part. Semezdin called me while I was on a six-month residency in Switzerland, and I honestly told him that there was really nothing happening there for me to keep a diary that would be interesting to any reader. I was planning to travel to America after Switzerland, so I suggested to Semezdin that I write about that trip. In the meantime, I received an invitation from Veliki priča to write longer texts for their portal, so it came to pass that I first published the essays I had planned for the “Diary” edition in Veliki priča , because their interests coincided, and Veliki priča gave me additional motivation to finish the book.
I wrote the essays in English because they take place in America. It would have been unnatural if I had written them in Macedonian, given that I am an English scholar, I translate from English, I took English classes at school in America, and the plot I described, with all the dialogue, took place in English. I wrote them and then edited them together with Steve Bradbury, a translator of Taiwanese poetry from Chinese to English, with whom I had previously translated Nikuda ne idem into English. Then I translated them into Macedonian, which further helped me with the editing. It is a laborious process and takes twice as much time, but I think that is the fate of authors who come from countries with so-called "small languages".
Given that the short story has been your specialty, your natural field, how do you feel about essay writing, or documentary literature? Is it your other great literary love, or something you do with less enthusiasm? How challenging is essay writing for you?
Essay writing is definitely a challenge for me, but I enjoyed writing these pieces, and I have to admit that this kind of prose came naturally from what I’ve been doing and reading for the past six years. While I was in Iowa for an international writers’ residency in 2018, I decided to take a course in essay writing, simply because I felt I didn’t know enough about the genre. I was interested in how elite American writers and authors taught, and how students in that program behaved (it’s that very famous writing program in Iowa, where many famous American writers studied and taught, and which was mostly managed to get into by students with certain privileges). Then, one of the editors of the Kosovo 2.0 portal (Daniel Patrick) asked me to write a long, personal essay about my grandfather, who was a Greek, communist, and doctor, exiled to Tashkent after the Greek Civil War. It was a big challenge for me, but I realized that I enjoyed that form. In the meantime, I was regularly writing columns for Nezavisen vesnik and Vreme iz Srbije, so all of that helped me relax and practice the documentary form.
Although the essays in this book were published at intervals, the book feels compact, complete, and unified. Did it require extra effort to fit everything together as if it were written in one go? Was it an editorial effort, or did the subject matter (the American journey) itself impose this unison?
I had a clear concept about the book even before I started writing it, from how many essays there should be to how long they should be. Certainly, the form was imposed by the trip, but I carefully conceived it before writing because I didn't want to blur.
In the book, you describe your journey through the South and Southwest of America (Arizona, Florida, Georgia) in March 2023, with flashbacks to previous stays in America, especially in the first part when you are in Arizona. I assume that the events are authentic and that you did not further fictionalize them – or did you? What was the writing process like? Did you write on the spot, or did you take notes and write about the events later?
When I set off on my journey, I thought I would be able to take notes; in fact, I had the ambition to write in the evening, before going to bed. But I was so tired and had so many impressions that it was not possible. So I took notes. Later I regretted that I had not written/taken notes enough about some things, and I regretted even more that I had not taken enough photos, because I was ashamed of not looking like some stupid tourist who takes photos of everything and anything. So I missed the details of some things. Taking photos is instant access to memories, so I will not hesitate to do so in the future. By the way, I did not make things up at all; everything is true, I just changed a few names. Certain people knew that I would write about them, so I sent the texts so that they could read them before publishing them, in case I misunderstood them, and I also did not want to offend anyone. I didn't write an essay about a trip to Arcosanta, Arizona with the famous podcaster and journalist Sarah Ventre, from whom I picked up a few tips about the ethics of writing such texts. In short, Sarah told me, "be careful not to hurt the people you love - it's not worth it."
What inspires you so much about America? The title of the book refers to Cummings' poem "next to of course god america i". In your opinion, is America equally inspiring because of its negative and positive sides? What is it about America that we cannot find in Europe?
America is the bastion of capitalism and controls the collapse of the world through some apparent progress that, here, culminates in violence and climate catastrophe. There is a huge crisis in that country, and unfortunately it seems that, if it continues to fall apart like this dramatically, it will drag the rest of the world with it. It has always been inspiring to me, precisely because it operates on the basis of huge contradictions that have been present since the time of its colonial beginnings. Geographically, it is a beautiful country, while socially it is depressed and conflicted, although its image conveys a picture of progress. Here in Europe I have not seen the extremism, nor the loneliness that America possesses.
Throughout the text, in all places and in all situations, you are never alone – you are always with a friend or relative (Steve, Marina, Nancy). What does friendship mean to you and how does it influence your writing?
Friendships have always defined my life and that will never change. I would say that in many ways it influences how and what I write. Some friends teach me a lot (Steve is an example of this), others give me all sorts of stories, and still others give me criticism of what I've written, which helps me in the writing process. Friendships are a home for me from which I can expand my worldview.
The texts in the book clearly show your attitude towards important social issues that you have dealt with in your prose and engagement. Here you have highlighted the cultural differences between the USA and Yugoslav environments, especially in language. Without glorifying our linguistic practice, you say that in the Balkans we deal with things directly with speech, while the American style is “devoid of emotion, calculated, based on open questions and vague affirmations, like sentences spoken in psychotherapy”. Why do you think superficial manners are more prevalent in language there than here, and how does this affect relationships between friends?
I think there are several reasons why American culture fosters an artificial discourse that only ostensibly expresses politeness and friendliness. I suspect that the roots of this lie in puritanism, and also in the capitalist logic of being very nice to the customer, which has imposed the lifeless, robotic language that we now see on social media and in the world of artificial intelligence (which is why AI robots sound “natural” to us – the speech itself is unnatural from the very beginning). Furthermore, I also see in this language a psychological crisis in America, where we are witnessing an epidemic of deaths from opioids, and where the wealthier classes are visiting psychiatrists. In a world dominated by capitalist logic, the best-ranked psychiatrist is the one with whom clients are happiest; therefore, in the absence of friendship due to the geographical and economic structure of America, psychiatrists become dealers to their clients, and in a way, their only friends. This language, which we see on social media in the form of instant psychological advice (which can be useful), also spills over into everyday discourse.
In the book, I think you address four key themes of American society: religion, guns, racism, and class differences. Are these inherent features of American society or are they perhaps consciously cultivated for corporate purposes to preserve the privilege of the rich white male?
These are social phenomena that exist in other countries, but have been present in America since the beginning of its existence as a state. Of course, this is also fundamentally connected with the privilege of the rich white man - the entire constitution is based on the rights of these people, the establishment and interpretation of laws are also based on the preservation of these privileges. Of course, the rich white man has also woven into the people the ideology of the "American dream", with which people have the illusion that they are responsible for their poverty, which in their world means complete failure and shame. Therefore, Blacks, Indians, women or anyone who is different, are to blame for their own failure - a rich white American with inherited generational wealth (from land stolen from the natives) will tell you that he earned it all himself and that he fought for it all himself thanks to his smarts, dedication and hard work. Like Trump.
Is misogyny in America similar to that in Europe?
There is something particularly sick about American misogyny, and this is very clearly demonstrated in the presidential elections (Harris and Trump) and, of course, in the abortion ban after the fall of Roe v. Wade in the US Supreme Court. The Incel phenomenon is American and is embodied in Trump and his supporters. America is a country where misogyny is married to religion, which is in turn married to the state, although it lies that it is not.
What does loneliness mean to you? (I refer to your phrase: "Friendships in America are landscapes of solitude.")
I talk a lot about American loneliness in the book because I tie it to its geography as well as its social order - people often move around the continent, spaces are wide and empty, habitats are scattered, there is mostly no public transportation, people are limited to cars, on which their survival depends... that alienation is palpable.
On the list of things you planned to do on that trip was to visit a shooting range and shoot a gun. How can we connect Rumena with guns? Where did that desire come from and what was that experience like for you?
The desire is conditioned by the country and its obsession with guns. It never occurred to me, for example, to go to a shooting range in Macedonia, or anywhere in Europe. Owning and using guns, whether shooting in the desert or at a shooting range, is part of an American culture of life that has gotten out of hand to the point of bizarreness. As I describe in an essay about shooting with an AR-15, the type of semi-automatic rifle most common in America, and with which Thomas Crooks recently shot Trump in Pennsylvania, shooting and owning guns is a ritual, but I also believe it is a preparation for civil war.
In the book, you highlight two key moments that shape this text: a meeting with the writer Phyllis Rose and a visit to Milledgeville, Georgia, where Flannery O'Connor passed away and where she spent the last years of her life. Phyllis Rose, author of Parallel Lives , was so important to you that you carried multiple copies of it to share with others, and Flannery O'Connor is one of your favorite authors. Are these the most emotional moments in the book? How do you connect these two authors in your literary world, and what does meeting Phyllis Rose in person, as well as visiting the home and setting where Flannery O'Connor spent her short life, mean to you?
It was a bit surreal to be going to Flannery's town, and it also happened that I was there on the opening day of the Andalusia Farm Cultural Center, where she spent the last years of her life. It was also an incredible coincidence that we visited one of the most famous O'Connorists in America, Bruce Gentry, because he is a friend of Steve's. Bruce told me stories about O'Connor as if he knew her, because, for example, he knows her cousin. Thanks to him, I was able to discover many new dimensions of O'Connor's stories that relate to her life there. That part of the trip was like a pilgrimage for me...
Another great blessing was meeting Phyllis Rose, one of my favorite writers (I later published an interview with her on Literary Hub ). Phyllis’s husband turned out to be Laurent de Brunhoff, the famous author of children’s books about the elephant Babar, and I had the honor of meeting him too. Laurent died a year later. Phyllis and I still correspond, and I hope to visit her again one day in the former literary oasis of Key West, home to Ernest Hemingway and Elizabeth Bishop, as well as a host of modern Pulitzer winners…
The style in your text is simple, reduced and cleansed of "excess". You are obviously allergic to redundancy and "empty passages". To what extent is your literary intention towards rational expression a result of the fact that you write in multiple languages? Do you think that tautology never has its own stylistic significance?
I have always written like that, even before I wrote in multiple languages. I love authors with clear and pure expression, and I despise repetition – even in reality, I can’t stand it when someone repeats themselves in speech and redundancy gets on my nerves. It’s a waste of time, and I consider time precious. Tautology, for me, can only be useful when it reflects the actual speech or thoughts of the narrator.
Do you have any essayist role models – authors who inspire you in documentary literature?
We mentioned Phyllis Rose here, who writes exclusively nonfiction, mostly biographies. Other authors whose books I've enjoyed the most in recent years include Rebecca Solnit, Roxane Gay, Deborah Levy, Joan Didion, Svetlana Alexievich, and Adrian Nicole LeBlanc.
Finally, when can we expect your debut novel, considering that you announced it, and are you enjoying writing it?
I announced that I was writing a novel because I was asked in interviews, and it seems I was wrong, because now there is an expectation that I have to publish it. But, on the other hand, maybe I announced it subconsciously on purpose, because I knew that this would force me to write it, instead of just talking about it in my head. For me, this is a new genre experience, so I need discipline, which I best impose on myself through deadlines. In Macedonia, the novel should be finished by the end of the year, if everything goes well, and for other places – I don’t know. Otherwise, the process is tiring. One of my favorite authors, George Saunders, says that you should have fun while you write. And yes, I often have fun, so I try to have a lot of comedic parts. But honestly, the fact that I am writing about a character that I have followed for so long sometimes gets boring. Short stories are more dynamic both to read and to write precisely because of the variety of characters and situations.